Tuesday, July 8, 2014

MisterXmedia Carnival Of Leaks July 8th, 2014. MisterX repackages old rumors as new "insider information."

Another day another post of fertilizer from MisterX. Enjoy!  As usual if you want to go to his site all the appropriate links are kept in his article.

Insider Daily. Sony and Microsoft both want Crytek. Sonys PS4 Linux tools lag 14 months behind
Insider: Fh2 looks better then the e3 behind closed doors now. Cars have a more reflect nature to surroundings. And seem to sit better in the environment. They had higher polygon model's. "I was told" the lights look better on cars with a stronger mirror effect and steal chrome shader technique.
From now on I will say if it was said or seen. Rather then lead information that I can not validate... lots of stuff is said that I still dont put out there. And it is easy for certain developers to change there mind if you give them a few days lead :) no boss whats a leaky boat before leaving port. So here goes ..
This is the beginning of MisterXmedia starting to cover his ass when he is wrong in the future.  Major announcements like the stuff he is leaking do NOT change in 48 hours.  Such as Cliff Bleszinski's game going from post-apocalyptic to an sci-fi arena shooter as we found out today.  It doesn't work that way.  All he is doing is trying to give himself wiggle room when he ends up "leaking" things that turn out to be nothing more than bullshit.
The source the last few days has been rampant on sony investing in crytek ... Sony are looking at any way to get tools that are heavily comput in nature and x86 optimisation. Just happens that sony can use directx associated attachments if the engine is licensed. Well cry engine is. As sony first party tool chain are way behind in development stages due to naughty dog using linux and old backend stuff to port tlu to ps4 .. they need highly advanced x86 tool chances not cell architecture tool with rappers and middle wear. So sony has made an offer.. but so have Ms.. the hardest part is unreal engine 4 debate. If ms purchase crytek what would be the point of continued support of the engine. Ms all ready have a highly advanced engine in development now. Is the I.p enough that is the question. Everybody has a different approach to what ms should do. My opinion is.. Purchase... why ? Because it is better to have multiple choice in engineering teams. Pc is also an aspect. If sony cant obtain the engine it will really put them back a good 14 months. Back end wise. I do know for fact that there is a licence agreement between ms and crytek in regard to ryse I.p I was told that this is good news for xbox fans.
This is not something insider is leaking.  There have been rumors for a very long time that a second Ryse game is in the works.  It was even rumored to be called Ryse: Knights of England.  It is insane to me that people are going to believe that this is a leak from this "insider" All he is doing is repackaging and already public rumor.  If there IS a second game coming there IS a licence agreement between Crytek and Microsoft.  That is how this whole industry works.  He might as well have said "Crytek and Microsoft are in talks to make Ryse 2."  Of course that version has already been said and "Licencing deal" sounds way more sexy.  This was not a leak!
So what do blog staff think do or dont.
Now rumour ms really want capcom .... its the truth .. capcom are more a console certified development house. And sony and ms are both in the middle of a mutual hand shack. A traid of respect. Its not hard to figure this out. But it does involve crytek. :)
So when this ends up not happening you know what he gets to say.  "Oops, the deal fell through and X company bought them outright."  This is how he covers his ass.  He deals in vague details so he can take claim to being right or wrong regardless of the outcome.  If Microsoft were to buy Capcom then he gets to say that he was right about Microsoft being interested.  If Sony buys the company he gets to say that Microsoft backed out at the 11th hour due to X reason.  Either way he gets to say he is correct.  The bottom line is--something is going on with Capcom and we already know that.  Something is going to happen with the company.  If neither MS or Sony buy he gets to say Capcom backed out of the deal entirely.  No matter what the outcome of the situation is MisterXmedia is going to claim credit.
Now inregards to architecture. Please take the time to read the last few weeks work of Mrc diagrams and information. As this information is 99% correct. The axi bridge is the key to the architecture and only a little bit of information has been shown yes hotchips 2013 / 14 are different you will see..

The clue is why have xbox architecture talks at a ray trace chip convention.. why even take the design there.. how many hot chips have had the same console architecture there year after year.. 2012 console architecture @ hot chips 2014
That answer is quite easy.  Because they are developing new ways to achieve ray-tracing and they will show it off in an effort to get potential buyers for their services.  Ray tracing works for more things than just gaming it can also work for straight CGI.  

Misterx: Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this as usual.
I think Crytek employees should make a choose where they will evolve. OpenGL or DirectX. Seem like the future for DX is so bright with all that ray tracing capable tech so that is no brainer. Means MS offer is not highest in money.


As for MS I think that will be a lot for now to have 3 industry leading engines to support. Maybe in 4 years when they will get market share they need. 800 heads is a lot to feed.

Insider: Ms have to decide. Iv heard ms put a big number up but crytek them selves have to decide from a board prospective. I think of it two ways it stops sony from gaining ground in platform development. And they know how to make games and the engine on x1..

I think ms will go for a bail out for them .. and get exclusive right to games for pc and x1.. its deal I hope the do.. cryengine exclusive to pc/x1 .. game on :)
The rest of this is mostly nonsense, but you can read it if you like. I just choose to post it here because people have reported that there is a bit of a history where MisterXmedia will retroactively change things on his blog. Whether that is true or not I have no clue, but at least I have a physical copy and paste of exactly what he posted.

Part 34. Talk in general about Locality in relation with computation
------------ 
by MIstercteam

Talk in general about Locality in relation with computation, 

Almost every people that downplay X1 (SDF, Beyond3D some tech site etc), 
said eSRAM is Scratchpad, yes they correct about that , but certainly wrong in the assumption. 
Did they know scratchpad will always locate near or embedded inside ALU (Compute operation) 

And lets take a look once more what is MS said about eSRAM (of course they not lying to us) 
- Make everything better 
- Compute task 

What is sratchbyte in GCN 1.0,& Local Scratch Memory (LSM) for future GPU & various LSM type 
Part34_1

Boom !! AMD Latest Patent, showed Computation operation in logic layer of stacked memory 

"Some die-stacked memories will contain a logic layer in addition to one or more layers of DRAM (or other memory technology). This logic layer may be a discrete logic die or logic on a silicon interposer associated with a stack of memory dies. Additional circuitry/functionality is placed on the logic layer to implement functionality to perform >>>>> various computation operations. This functionality would be desired where performing the operations locally <<<< near the memory devices would allow increased performance and/or >>>> power efficiency by avoiding transmission of data across the interface to the host processor.<<<<< "


Just like i said 102 GB/s is from host
what inside is another matter
plus they try to reduce the wattage why send the data back and forth
when they can compute it locally

Infact it was very resemblance what Xbox.com Hardware layer & eSRAM Block

Plus my chasing finally found some hard evidence that AMD
said for Stacked device they will put logic layer for local compute....
so much inline !!!! 

part34_2


Marcberry: PS4's dark secret
So i was going over some PS4 specs and found this from DF.


"Jenner wouldn't go into details on the levels of bandwidth available for each bus owing to confidentiality agreements,"x_x

Note how DF adds in the Sony PR line of 176GB/s..... Sony has the real BW under a NDA.

"but based on our information the GPU has full access to the 176GB/s bandwidth of the PS4's GDDR5 via Garlic, while the Onion gets by with a significantly lower amount,~"

So this is a PR job....
the real BW is 135GB/s real world. Peak is 176GB/s.


page 13
PS4darksecret


Over at

b3d
"Post: 599"
His job is to shot down any good XB1 news. By the way don't try to post the Developer papers they will kick you!!!

intel


Intel using stacked memory as well as fpga,noc... more and more looking like xbox one soc we have been talking about. Also 500 GB bandwidth...


2.5
rizal88: no. 3 which console has it? :)

Srenia Ia: This and president of Hynix saying production was starting in 2013 for HBM in 2.5D... ah yes. (Hynix makes rest of memory in One and is partners with AMD)

Plus...



Nice article inline with what mrC talking about previously



HBM in One but same concept. Amd is with hbm, intel with hmc.

cigi_68The acnologement at the end of the document is interesting...
We would like to thank Doug Burger and the Catapult team for their support and help with this project. We would also like to thank Adrian Macias from Altera for helping with the accumulator implementation. 

We all know that catapult is allready out in public :-)

mark_dupree82To me, I won't feed too much into Insider's predictions as much as his tech talks. His hardware specifics aren't amateur at all. It has fueled much research from MrC, Jose, Gforce, Srenia La, XboxTurnOn and others. Even if some stuff is off, much of it has led to a better understanding of X1 hardware for future use by devs. 

He actually stated atleast last year that X1 has close to 1TBs stacked RAM. 
Any naysayers wanna guess how? In the words of Fred Savage from MS Build 2014 "It's a huge win when u can access the ESRAM at 2-10 times system RAM". So, 68GB/s main RAM times 10 = 680GB/s ESRAM Boom! That's how u get that huge bandwidth........STACKED. 

So Insider's predictions (Games and MS hardware talks) can be taken lightly, but his hardware info is actually good.

gforce1981Notice that when the xbox one was first announced and they spoke about some of the specs it was thought that the esram was 256bit.

later on people found out (as MS released more information) that it is infact 1024 bit.

each chunk of 8mb has its own channel.

So I was wondering and thinking that it might even be possible (maybe not) that each esram chunk actually has 204gb/s.

When they use tiled resources they are only going to need 16mb's for a full HD image, that means lets say 2 out of the 4 chucks could be used for this render target.

that then leaves 2 separate channels that could be doing what ever they want with effects etc.

the other thing that is fascinating and this is inline with what MisterC has been saying is that the 'special processors' have their own bandwidth (they also have their own memory :) ).


"The graphics processing part of the chip contains fifteen special processors that can transfer data at a rate of 200GBs per second.
The audio section of the chip has two of its own dedicated cores for processing."

They don't say GPU :) , and that isn't the first time there are 2 different references of GPU + graphics processing.


Page 6, GPU & GPU MMU clients,
DX 11.1 Graphics core with customer graphics and compute command processors.


Page 3, notice how I mentioned a VERY long time ago that the image over the SOC in the picture has been photo shopped. (look at the left and right side, the strips down the side of the chip have been copied from slightly in it, you can even see the lines)


then you have the thing about the host / guest thing


we also have the extra ram that is on board the chip which the special processors can use.

but notice how everything about the xbox one has been left confusing.

even in the SOC talk at hotchips 2013 there was no mention of esram.

there are still NDA's that we know about

There is MS saying "can anyone think of a situation where the console that seemed weaker was in fact the faster system"

we have all this talk about ground breaking Tech that MS has that is only seeing the light of day as far as announcements (but they have the tech working already)

there is those things next to the CPU's that know one knows about

there is the confusion over where is all of the esram on the chip due to size etc

there is confusion over where are these over 50 other special processors.

It is exciting and frustrating at the same time :)

Game ON.

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